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- Path: news.chattanooga.net!usenet
- From: "Eric W. Bradway" <ebradway@microsports.com>
- Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++
- Subject: Re: C or C++ for a 14-year old? The definitive reply
- Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:22:40 -0500
- Organization: Micro Sports, Inc.
- Message-ID: <310F7B30.2BC0@microsports.com>
- References: <Pine.SGI.3.91r.960119203937.9593A-100000@freenet> <4dsact$a3b@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4e0bhb$k08@sundog.tiac.net> <4e0ljs$quh@ccnet3.ccnet.com> <4ejjgd$ibl@castle.nando.net>
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-
- Thomas D. Wason wrote:
- >
- > felinoid@ccnet.com (Jeffery C McLean) wrote:
- > >Alberto C Moreira (amoreira@nine.com) wrote:
- > >: babycox@aol.com (BabyCox) wrote:
- > >
- > >: >> Also, if you still find DOS confusing, programming isn't for you. I see
-
- I work with a guy who came down to PCs from workstations (ala X-windows) and actually prefers
- a windowing system. He doesn't care for DOS (or command lines for that matter) and doesn't
- know DOS. But that doesn't stop him from being a first-class programmer. The only hidrance he
- has is because he's always worked so far away from the metal that he rarely sees low-level
- solutions.
-
- > >: >I find this very insulting, I am a 14 year old (not a kid). I learned
- > >: >BASIC, before I was in school, learned Logo in first grade, and am now
- > >: >very proficent C++. I am not lazy, I am not a dork, and I do not see many
- > >: >other teenage programmers that would fit either of thes descriptions, and
- > >: >I don't appreciate people who resort to name calling just to prove a
- > >: >point.
-
- Way to go. I didn't get into C until college (and professionally) and am still trying to find
- the time to get proficient in C++. Of course, I didn't get my hands on a computer until I was
- 14 years old...
-
- > >When I was 17 a teacher in HiSchool was trying to covence everyone
- > >(Felow students, my parents etc) that I didn't know computers
- > >and that I couldn't posably know computers. Eventualy she showed the truth
- > >is she was JUST learning how to USE a computer and felt a little challanged
- > >by the fact that a student in her class knew more than her.
-
- Grade school teachers are notorious for emphasizing their authority over their abilities. I
- had a Calculus teacher in high-school who (I don't know how this is possible) was just taking
- her first class in Physics. She claimed "Physics is useless." I also ran into similar
- sentiments when I first got to college and was bored out of my mind in the Intro to
- Programming classes. When I asked my prof about placing out and mentioned having done some
- embedded systems assembly professionally he said "I don't care if you've played around with
- ASM..." I soon changed my major to math.
-
- > > I feal kids SHOULD learn programming early....
- > >I also feal thies adults who hold kids away from computers should get
- > >a dose of reality... "Computers stifle creativity"
-
- Unfortunately as a professional programmer of 8+ years I am just now coming to terms with my
- own creativity. Having spent most of my career in business apps where nobody else was creative
- (accountants, actuaries, managers) I feel into the groove that computers are even more dull
- and programmers and just button pushers. Now I'm in games and even the non-techies are
- creative (graphic artists). I think alot of the problem is that non-programmers don't
- understand the magnitude of creative activity that goes into programming. I've heard it said
- in many places that modern programs are the most complex structures ever created by man.
- Sky-scrapers, moon-launches, air-craft carriers, etc all pale by comparison. And we do it from
- the bits up!
-
- > >I don't think ANYONE who knows computers would make THAT clame... That one
- > >comes from artests who rely on "traditional matreals"....
-
- Or as I like to say, the computer/programming is my prefered medium of expression.
-
- > I presume your poor spelling is a put on. HOWEVER. Programming is not all that hard.
- > I find it a relaxing interlude to real thinking. Program *design* is something else, and I
- > see few who can do it well.
-
- Unfortunately much of the world still doesn't separate design from programming.
-
- > I think good program design requires a broader background.
- > That's called an education.
-
- Not just programming, but life. Programming, as I said, is a medium of expression - just as is
- poetry, painting, building with legos...
-
- > Yes, I agree that peoople should be taught how to program as
- > young as they want to learn, but they should realize it is only a tool--often badly used.
- > The language is not all that important--you learn one, you can learn the next.
-
- Hence BASIC and LOGO. In fact BASIC in many ways is an ideal example since it is very easy to
- create simple programs of great variety and not be restricted by "advanced" techniques such as
- structured programming. Remember when you were little and never colored in the lines in the
- coloring books? BASIC lets you "program out of the lines..." But I don't want to start this
- argument here (well, maybe in comp.edu, but not c.l.c or c.l.c++!).
-
- -Eric
-